"Come on, 1v1 me bro!", or How what the f#%* happened in the final big boom?!?

Pouring over the end of round battle, think I’ve made some sense of what we saw with the BR.


Weird things:

  • Fighters survived, despite DE having 1.5x as many frigs necessary to kill hostile fighters.
  • BTS survived despite an abundance of destroyers.
  • SOL/OT got zeroed while some alliances saw little to no losses.
  • Some holo ships died, despite other ships being around.

All this suggests alliances fight 1v1 in order as opposed to all alliances firing at same time vs “all hostile”.

SOL and OT lost holo ships while no one else did—which looks suspicious. Why them?

A key clue came from Raptor just before the big boom:

Biggest fleet scores by alliance were 1- DE, 2-SOL, 3-OT, 4-BORG.

I predict that DE was given firing priority and defaulted to a 1v1 ally battle vs SOL due to score. After killing all of SOL, they still had ships left to fire, so they went on to zero OT. Shots ran out by the time they got to BORG. Explains loss of holos in SOL/OT but not in BORG.

DE SOL DE Shots Remaining
FT 548925 100685 0
BO 160395 40767 ~5072.76
FR 61879 46398 61879
DE 2652 3909 2652
CR 606 88 606
BTS 15 7 15
IS 14
Freighter 39
TR 8
OS 0
HoloProjector 28

If this is right DE used up all fighter shots on SOL. They still had ~5k bomber shots to give after SOL and all shots from remaining ship types. That enough to zero OT?

DE to shoot OT DE Shots Remaining
FT 0 40031 0
BO 5072.76 9550 0
FR 61879 1955 2446.355
DE 2652 1739 2652
CR 606 1425 606
BTS 15 73 15
IS 0
Freighter 1
TR 1
OS 1
HoloP 31

Yep! OT get killed down to the last man. So does BORG survive?

DE to shoot BORG DE Shots Remaining Borg Ships Remaining
FT 0 50006 0 2655.4975
BO 0 32231 0 113
FR 2446.355 5255 0 4689.5
DE 2652 3208 0 3208
CR 606 13 0 0
BTS 15 0 0 0
IS 94 94
Freighter 217 217
TR 13 13
OS 0 0
HoloP 36 36

So, if DE ran out of shots on BORG, we’d expect no more than the BORG ships remaining column to be there.


Checks out.

Anyways, then I’m guessing it’d iterate based on all other alliances fleet sizes targeting “biggest” threat and at end of day, not enough to kill DE’s frigs. DE picked up massive combat score because their fleets saw full efficiency of combat (they got to fire every shot) and they brought a MASSIVE fleet.

Smaller fleets didn’t engage in combat until the big alliances had used all their shots—so POTATOE/WP/CMT saw nearly no losses.

Paradoxically, DE was penalized for bringing the biggest fleets by experiencing the weirdest losses. If it had been all alliances vs all alliances, you’d probably see a more balanced set of losses all around. Because it goes 1v1 iteratively by alliance, DE fought more and lost more because other fleets were getting “free shots” on them.

Something to fix for next round, perhaps?

Thank you for attending the WHOREAL Academy, see you next beta :slight_smile:


Yep, that’s pretty much it…

Fleet Groups (by alliance) get ordered by score, and the top 2 will duke it out, once complete, the changes are applied, fleets are re-sorted by score, and the top 2 run again (note that no two fleets will ever fight against each other more than once). Rinse and repeat until all fleets have participated in combat against all other fleets (if a fleet is wiped out during this phase, it no longer participates).

The main reason for this decision in combat is a generally reasonable one, which is to ensure combat is as ‘fair’ as possible, alliance vs alliance vs alliance vs alliance from a practical perspective is difficult to calculate and do so fairly, there will always be an ‘order of attack’ and that order can benefit one person by virtue of going first, or be unfair to another.

Obviously, as mentioned, there are pros and cons to being the ‘biggest fleet’, you’ll get more Combat Score (your fleet size dictates how much you participate in combat), with the downside that a fleet has fixed amount of total damage it can cause across fleets, meaning that you can have the biggest fleet in battle that literally cannot fight back after a certain point, but it also means that fleets which don’t really participate (or aren’t needed) do get substantially less while the big fleets are fighting, but they can do some cleanup.

Looking at the fleet scores, DE should have won that battle at the end (at the very least, as far as CS is concerned), with over twice the score of any other individual fleet, although their fleet should have taken quite the battering from pretty much every other fleet. Although, it should be noted that once the hurricane of DE had been settled, and everyone got some shots off against their generally impotent ships at that point, any remaining fleets would have fought amongst themselves, as every alliance will fight every other alliance.

Now, obviously, this code wasn’t designed to have 17 alliances all smash into each other (I don’t think combat code has ever actually been useful in a general end-of-round collision), it also wasn’t supposed to be used in a situation where a few bugs are making frigs unreasonable tanky, but overall during normal gameplay it seems to work pretty well, so this behaviour will be left for the time being.



The battle was definitely weird, although I’m sure there are reasons behind the working of the code.

At least two things IMO should be looked at:

  1. CS distribution

DE sent 740k fleetscore and got over 70 million CS.
SOL sent 370k fleetscore and got sub 15 million CS.

This clearly looks like a bug to me - DE fleet either got to shoot multiple times OR there is a miscalculation in the code. And if they did shoot multiple times within the same turn that would be fairly imbalanced imo.

  1. Loss distribution

Big alliances lost (almost) everything, including cargo. Small alliances were untouched.

Multiple alliances did not lose any fleet or lost very few (several reports are in #bugs on discord from different PoV) - basically the alliances with small fleets did not lose anything and this is clearly a bug imo.

From 16 (?) participating alliances only three were wiped out completely, including cargo and holos:

SoL (#2 in total fleet)
OT (#3 in total fleet)
TGP (#6 in total fleet)

Everyone else kept at least some fleets, with small alliances being basically untouched.

I know that the game is not built around multiple alliances fighting and this is just an odd thing that happens once in the round, but it might be worth looking at. In my opinion there are two things that I would expect to see in such a battle:

  • CS should be proportionate to fleet lost. That’s not the case with DE getting more than twice the cs per loss compared to (most) other alliances.
  • Small alliances should be wiped. It really makes no sense all big alliances to die and all small alliances to survive.
  • Cargo should not die (from any alliance) unless ALL warfleet is dead

Additionally, just an opinion:

  • I would personally consider ship targeting priority before alliance targeting priority (i.e. destroyers should kill BTS regardless of the alliance, rather than shooting at e.g.: bombers)

Instead of having a formulaic demolition-derby, and blaming Frosty for the outcome, did you ever think it might be more fun to have user-selected fleet-to-fleet combat? At least for the big Fin-de-Siecle battle… Like with invasions, you open your fleet’s Operations tab, and can decide when to push the [INVADE] button, but in this case with a list of fleets, with a button next to each. When you see another player’s fleet you don’t like, for some reason, you push [ATTACK] and your fleet attacks it, creating a battle report involving just your two fleets.