Outpost ship score

I think you should consider nerfing the score from OS as it and IS are calculated in different way as other ships.

I guess it might be leftover from old code, where the pop score was higher and it might add the mine, extractor, resources and pop on top of the “normal” score from built resources.

The problem is that, when score starts to matter in a real round building OS for farming purposes would become a valid strategy. I know Ingus will come and claim that you are spending resources for non-combat stats, but you could easily pull this off in the ■■■■ galaxies, where you would be relatively safe. OS’s would give you ~2x the score gain compared to building real stuff, so the income deficit wouldn’t matter. You could also park them to you HW.

Score now considers building time and pop used as well as resources.

As for the actual score it is probably misleading right now.

Once actual ships are being built and fighting happens I don’t expect it to be an issue.

But well farmers gotta farm, they are just unlikely to have any planets to do it with.

Ok, there was something fishy going on with the ship scores and the population+build time explains it, thanks for that. If production output isn’t a limiting factor this will be problematic. Anyway, I guess I need a multi to prove it or do it in a speed run.

I think you overestimate yourself quite a bit.

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I would like to know how the Player Rankings calculation is done just out of curiosity.
Was in 2nd place with 63 points, colonize a planet and the next turn I get half the points, how does this work?

The score on an outpost is greater than the resources and buildings you get when you first colonise, so your score drops.

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What is worth what is a subject that has never been well clarified in DG,
as in ships and how many are needed to destroy another.

I think it was better when the score was calculated off resources consumed. It’s jumping all over the place at the moment and kind of hard to keep track of.

Also I’m not sure it’s right that buildings have such little score weight compared to ships. It’s going to put some people off from fighting if losing a few ships will halve their score.

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Agreed with Muffin, might want to add a multiplier to it for combat units or something.

Anyway, all too happy to prove the point of just how viable this is…

90th rank ~53k score
150 Turns Later
3rd rank - ~155k score

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How many IS / OS were you able to build during those 150 turns?

[EDIT]
It’s important to evaluate WHY OS / IS have this effect, so doing some general checking, against other ships and setups, note, I’m doing this ‘live’ in this thread, so it may be a little disjointed as I run and check numbers…

It’s an interesting case, the ‘difficulty’ multiplier applies somewhat disproportionately to IS / OS, but as a first check, we should determine if that’s actually the case… So, ships scores are calculated as follows:

(metal *4 + mineral *6 + (workers x turns))*3…

So, we end up with the following (excluding holos):

<SetUnitScore group="Military" unit="Fighter"       score="30000" />
<SetUnitScore group="Military" unit="Bomber"        score="99000" />
<SetUnitScore group="Military" unit="Frigate"       score="438000" />
<SetUnitScore group="Military" unit="Destroyer"     score="2250000" />
<SetUnitScore group="Military" unit="Cruiser"       score="5520000" />
<SetUnitScore group="Military" unit="Battleship"    score="37800000" />
<SetUnitScore group="Military" unit="Outpost_Ship"  score="3120000" />
<SetUnitScore group="Military" unit="Invasion_Ship" score="3120000" />
<SetUnitScore group="Military" unit="Freighter"     score="1056000" />
<SetUnitScore group="Military" unit="Trader"        score="3888000" />

So this places the score of OS / IS between Destroyers and Cruisers :face_with_raised_eyebrow:… Checking the maths…

IS:
((30000*4) + (20000*6) + (50000 * 16))*3 =
(120000 + 120000 + 800000) * 3 = 3120000..

Destroyer:
((40000*4) + (40000*6) * (25000 * 14)) * 3 =
(160000 + 240000 + 350000) * 3 = 2250000..

All of this seems to also ignore the fact a HWF is required for the dessie, obviously something seems wrong here… So lets backtrack a second and answer the following question…

Why is ‘Difficulty Factor’ even a thing?
The combat calculations are based around score, it’s arguably the sanest way to ensure appropriate combat ‘weight’. Simply put, if one ship costs 3000 score to create, and another has 1000 score, the ratio should be 3:1… In the real world, there’s some weighting and favouring in ship vs ship combat, but as a very simple base, score:score is used.

The biggest problem this caused, was from a pure resource perspective, this made ‘end-game’ units, such as battleships, comparatively weak (this was pointed out during the alphas run)… The reasoning for this, is that things like battleships require a LOT more than resources to build, the number of workers and the length of time were exceptionally important to the availability of the ships (this doesn’t even include pre-req structures). As such, a ‘difficulty’ factor was introduced to beef up the high cost ships, and include the creation conditions as part of their score, which then factors into combat calculations. For the most part, this worked ok, arguably some ships are still weak due to pre-requisite building requirements, but those pre-reqs were less important in the grand scheme of things.

So what happened?
Well, we ended up with a couple of units with a high turn + worker requirement, but from a structural perspective, are VERY easy to create. By not including structure requirements, the OS / IS end up with a more favourable score calculation when difficulty is accounted for than Destroyers. Obviously, this wasn’t intended.

What’s Next?
Some thought is required… It’s important that difficulty factor is taken into account when ships are constructed, and making sure the influence is included in combat. In the short term, I’m going to move the ship score back to purely resources, and have the combat ‘calculated’ score separate. So difficulty will become a purely internal metric used during combat calculation. In addition, non-combat ships will NO LONGER receive the 3x multiplier which is normally afforded to ships. Military ships are important, Invasion and Outpost ships are not. Both of these in concert will resolve this specific issue. I’m also going to be looking into considering pre-requisite buildings as a small increment to ship performance, not sure how I’m gonna do that yet, but it’ll be there.

All this will hopefully be visible for Beta 2, but I’ll let you know.

Cheers.

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Watching the code-archologist Craig at work…

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Also, points can be made without ■■■■■■■■ on people. Please be respectful… Mines the opinion that’s important, and I’m less likely to be amenable to people who decide to attack others.

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I think I was able to build like 5 OS by that turn.
I reached 12 planets around t. 200 with 3 freighters

according to some old calculations, i was going to colo
t25, 108,125,141,145,157…
so, i built at least 5 OP in the first 150turns