Suggestion - Carriers

Carriers - can carry x amount of fighters/bombers only - combined with holoships your scan will only give you an idea of the maximum number of small ships there are possibly in the attacking fleet so you have to counter for the maximum even if the carrier is empty

[ 18:22 ] FrostyCoolSlug :

It makes sense, they wouldn’t be called carriers if they couldn’t carry stuff :stuck_out_tongue:

[ 18:23 ] FrostyCoolSlug :

what about fighters / bombers travelling without a carrier? Or is the idea of the carrier to simply shield X numbers presence?

[ 18:24 ] Ingus :

Yes. So you could have mix. Say a carrier takes 100 fighters. The scan shows 1 carrier and 100 fighters. It might be empty and 100 holoships, it might be full with an extra 100 real fighters

[ 18:24 ] Ingus :

Your choice what to load, same as soliders

[ 18:24 ] FrostyCoolSlug :

or even, the ability to ‘load’ fighters / bombers into a carrier (same way you would soldiers / resources into other ships), which are involved in the fight, allowing the player to… yea, that :stuck_out_tongue:

[ 18:25 ] Ingus :

Armour/build values pending on the carrier

[ 18:26 ] FrostyCoolSlug :

it’s interesting, one of the unfortunate downfalls of DG was the fact that combat is always going to have certain levels of predictability, things like Holoships (and potentially this with carriers) mean that scans can give a pretty accurate ballpark, but not absolute certainty :stuck_out_tongue:

[ 18:27 ] FrostyCoolSlug :

being able to manipulate and misdirect enemies simply adds to the strategies :stuck_out_tongue:

[ 18:30 ] FrostyCoolSlug :

some care does have to be taken to make sure it’s not too difficult to defend against though

[ 18:30 ] Ingus :

That is a cost/research balance issue only

[ 18:31 ] FrostyCoolSlug :

i’m more worried about the concept of scans becoming completely useless over time as research happens

[ 18:31 ] Ingus :

Well you won’t be able to hide everything

[ 18:32 ] Ingus :

but fleet scan was too powerful in the end. Once you have had a couple of battles you can start working stuff out

[ 18:32 ] Ingus :

especially if you are in an organised alliance

[ 18:32 ] Ingus :

it would benefit smaller alliances perhaps more than big ones

[ 18:33 ] FrostyCoolSlug :

yea, it’s a very valid point, small bashing with the nerf stick was required

[ 18:34 ] Ingus :

Before the scan was fixed mostly you had to send what you had available just in case. Leaving you open elsewhere

[ 18:34 ] FrostyCoolSlug :

need to check it from a technical perspective, it’s theoretically actually easy to implement, but I’d need to be sure carriers got destroyed after the fighters / bombers (saves having to handle ‘unloading’ them into the fleet when combat starts)

[ 18:38 ] FrostyCoolSlug :

ooh, actually, this might be more complicated than I though :stuck_out_tongue:

[ 18:40 ] Ingus :

I wouldn’t be so inclined to have the carriers simply destroyed due to the imbalance in resources it creates between groups of players

[ 18:41 ] Ingus :

I know I can probably stand the loss of a planet short term even I lose the battle as I am a bigger player. The smaller player using the carriers effectively loses out because now I know they have less/none

[ 18:41 ] Ingus :

arrive - unload - battle calcs - carriers at end of list with transports

[ 18:42 ] FrostyCoolSlug :

Carriers would potentially be a completely new unit type with new logic attached

[ 18:43 ] Ingus :

it would be a silent auto-unload like the resource auto-unload, just into the fleet not a planet

1 Like

This could also open up certain travel limitations on speed or distance. For instance, fighters and bombers have a certain limited speed or range, however, putting them into a carrier allows the advanced movement from the carrier to take them elsewhere.

Could help prevent a too early spread across the galaxy, opening up different tactics for strong local presence vs fast broader expansion.

I’ve not really looked into the concept of movement speed as far as units are concerned (everything’s currently flat timings), so there’s something to look into there.

Just a random thought which could use feedback, I’m still investigating the ‘military’ branch of the new research, assuming carriers are possible (or made possible) possibly have carriers / holoships in the position 5 slot on the research? Makes it a little more on the either / or side of things to prevent people being too overwhelmed by unscannable fleets.

Recon ships to scout hostile regions?

Not sure on the current/last implementation of scans, but maybe have a scan station that shows default traffic and an expensive scan (price scaling with magnitude of fleet size?) which would also reveal holoships, but not content like units on a carrier or troops on a transport.

So depending on how expensive holoships are, you could use them as a mix between resource warfare and obscuring troop movements

The intent of this, and the holoships, is to bring more surprise back to battles. In the Saturn rounds, fleet scan did not work. This meant you had to send more ships into battle or to combat an attack, across all ship types in order to have a better chance of success.

Once fleet scan worked in the Jupiter rounds it allowed people to work out exactly how to combat different attacks to be the most effective use of ships. As long as you knew the ratio you could predict the outcome exactly, not helpful for new players and really meant bigger players had to take less risks.

As much as we would like to think overkill solves problems it only really helps the bigger players and isn’t a solution to balance things.

With carriers and holoships you now can no longer be certain what is in a fleet and so have to work to a maximum possible threat and that is the same for a newer player as it is for an experienced one.

For instance as an experienced player if I am attacked by someone smaller I now have to commit more resources to defending the attack than if I am simply able to send a fleet which is exactly enough to kill the attacking fleet at least cost to me i.e. fighters and bts only.

As for research putting these into research has a cost which may deter people from bothering and so I would have these available as soon as similar ships are at an appropriate cost. If they go into research then their benefits would have to be increased to make it worthwhile spending the points on them rather than output or planet limit, unlikely to happen.